<div>This is off topic.</div><div><br></div>I went biking in Helsinki a couple of years ago. I must have missed the car free areas other than a small area by the pier. <div><br></div><div>What I did notice is that the drivers that I encountered seemed more respectful of cyclists, but that may have been biased by my expectations. Even though Helsinki is just a very tiny fraction of the size of NYC when I was there (less than 600,000 people), it seemed that there were many, many, many, many more bicycles on the street.<br>
<div><br></div><div>I enjoyed my visit even without encountering car free areas.</div><div><br></div><div>OP<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Clay Mikolasy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clay@njsouth.com">clay@njsouth.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Apology accepted! As far as car-free areas, I'll let others address it. I am<br>
fortunate to live in a relatively rural area, so I co-exist nicely with cars<br>
on most public streets, but that may be difficult in some places.<br>
<div class="im">----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Tapio Antero Osala" <<a href="mailto:tapio.antero.osala@gmail.com">tapio.antero.osala@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)"<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><<a href="mailto:bent@list.marsride.org">bent@list.marsride.org</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:54 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers<br>
<br>
<br>
>I am not an cultural anthropologist but I am curious and willing to<br>
> make observations about people behavior.<br>
> It is a bad habit to make generalizations after a few observations and<br>
> can't hold them in my self...<br>
><br>
> You have right.<br>
><br>
> This forum is not the right one to comment your domestic characters. I<br>
> should only compare my feelings with my countrymen who have<br>
> visited/lived over there.<br>
><br>
> I apologize.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----<br>
><br>
> But what about this issue;<br>
><br>
> "helping solve the car free areas was the bicycle."<br>
><br>
> Unfortunately I have not yet managed to test your bicycling routes.<br>
> How are they? Totally car free? Are there coming more in the future?<br>
><br>
> What about countyside? Do you have separate lanes along the high-ways<br>
> for bicycles?<br>
> In any state?<br>
> Are people commuting in NYC-area with bicycle?<br>
> Is it possible to take a bicycle in a metro?<br>
> Is it possible to use bicycle from New Jersey to Manhattan without toll?<br>
><br>
> ----<br>
> In Finland people have generally accepted the idea of car free city<br>
> centres just a couple of decades ago.<br>
> The process has just started in major cities.<br>
> In Sweden/Denmark this progress is about 40-50 years old.<br>
><br>
> All business people were against it strongly at first but times are<br>
> changing and business wants to have their stores along<br>
> car-free-streets.<br>
><br>
> I think it is freedom not to be obliged to use a car every day. (I am<br>
> such a lucky guy).<br>
><br>
> You have a wonderful public transportation system. That is functioning<br>
> only in Helsinki in Finland.<br>
> In small cities like Vaasa people mostly use cars but more and more<br>
> use bicycles.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Tapio, from Finland<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2010/1/11 Clay Mikolasy <<a href="mailto:clay@njsouth.com">clay@njsouth.com</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Tapio's factual comments comparing car-free areas in different places may<br>
>> have been right on. However, comments he made such as the following are<br>
>> feelings that perhaps were best kept to himself:<br>
>><br>
>> "I have got the influence that Manhattanties would perhaps be more<br>
>> tolerant, anti-rasist, "free-minded", perhaps not so fundamentally<br>
>> religious, than people on most other places (e.g in Hershey).<br>
>><br>
>> (Of course all North-America are friendly. "May I buy you a drink,<br>
>> what do you like about America". The interest / knoledge about<br>
>> Europe/rest of world is generally not very strong.)"<br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>> I, personally, would not go to someone else's country, or even an<br>
>> unfamiliar part of my own country, and make public comments such as<br>
>> those. Nor do I think would most people. I am sure that if any one of us<br>
>> went to various parts of Europe, we would have, along with the mostly<br>
>> positive impressions we had, perhaps also some negative ones that we<br>
>> might not necessarily want to point out on a website frequented mostly by<br>
>> people of that particular country. IMO, Mr. Rothberg was correct in his<br>
>> reaction and in what he said.<br>
>><br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>> From: JOHN TETZ<br>
>> To: NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)<br>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:42 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers<br>
>> Hello Tapio;<br>
>><br>
>> I feel your comets were right on particularly about the lack of car free<br>
>> areas in US cities.<br>
>><br>
>> Back in 1996 I went to the week long Car Free Cities Conference held in<br>
>> Copenhagen. I gave a talk on my Up Hill assist for the simultaneously<br>
>> held Bike Culture week.<br>
>><br>
>> There were as I remember 35 or so cities from many European countries<br>
>> were present. No US cities were there. High on the list of helping solve<br>
>> the car free areas was the bicycle.<br>
>><br>
>> That was back in 1996. Since then more and more European cities have<br>
>> adopted car free city centers. So naturally you would be very sensitive<br>
>> to the lack of this here in the US.<br>
>><br>
>> John Tetz<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bent mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Bent@list.marsride.org">Bent@list.marsride.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent" target="_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bent mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Bent@list.marsride.org">Bent@list.marsride.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent" target="_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Tapio Osala<br>
> <a href="mailto:tapio.antero.osala@gmail.com">tapio.antero.osala@gmail.com</a><br>
> Vaasa gsm +358400761185<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bent mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Bent@list.marsride.org">Bent@list.marsride.org</a><br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>