No subject
Thu Dec 3 16:17:04 EST 2009
bicycle lanes TO city centre.
Sweden and Denmark are much better in car-free areas in city centre areas.
Stockholm, Copenhagen... and almost ALL minor cities in Sweden have large
car-free areas in the city centres.
In Finland there is a debate and demand from public to increase car-free
areas but car-owners and conservative politics are against it.
2010/1/12 Old Pokey <oldandpokey at gmail.com>
> This is off topic.
>
> I went biking in Helsinki a couple of years ago. I must have missed the
> car free areas other than a small area by the pier.
>
> What I did notice is that the drivers that I encountered seemed more
> respectful of cyclists, but that may have been biased by my expectations.
> Even though Helsinki is just a very tiny fraction of the size of NYC when I
> was there (less than 600,000 people), it seemed that there were many, many,
> many, many more bicycles on the street.
>
> I enjoyed my visit even without encountering car free areas.
>
> OP
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Clay Mikolasy <clay at njsouth.com> wrote:
>
>> Apology accepted! As far as car-free areas, I'll let others address it. I
>> am
>> fortunate to live in a relatively rural area, so I co-exist nicely with
>> cars
>> on most public streets, but that may be difficult in some places.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tapio Antero Osala" <tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com>
>> To: "NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)"
>> <bent at list.marsride.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers
>>
>>
>> >I am not an cultural anthropologist but I am curious and willing to
>> > make observations about people behavior.
>> > It is a bad habit to make generalizations after a few observations and
>> > can't hold them in my self...
>> >
>> > You have right.
>> >
>> > This forum is not the right one to comment your domestic characters. I
>> > should only compare my feelings with my countrymen who have
>> > visited/lived over there.
>> >
>> > I apologize.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----
>> >
>> > But what about this issue;
>> >
>> > "helping solve the car free areas was the bicycle."
>> >
>> > Unfortunately I have not yet managed to test your bicycling routes.
>> > How are they? Totally car free? Are there coming more in the future?
>> >
>> > What about countyside? Do you have separate lanes along the high-ways
>> > for bicycles?
>> > In any state?
>> > Are people commuting in NYC-area with bicycle?
>> > Is it possible to take a bicycle in a metro?
>> > Is it possible to use bicycle from New Jersey to Manhattan without toll?
>> >
>> > ----
>> > In Finland people have generally accepted the idea of car free city
>> > centres just a couple of decades ago.
>> > The process has just started in major cities.
>> > In Sweden/Denmark this progress is about 40-50 years old.
>> >
>> > All business people were against it strongly at first but times are
>> > changing and business wants to have their stores along
>> > car-free-streets.
>> >
>> > I think it is freedom not to be obliged to use a car every day. (I am
>> > such a lucky guy).
>> >
>> > You have a wonderful public transportation system. That is functioning
>> > only in Helsinki in Finland.
>> > In small cities like Vaasa people mostly use cars but more and more
>> > use bicycles.
>> >
>> >
>> > Tapio, from Finland
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2010/1/11 Clay Mikolasy <clay at njsouth.com>
>> >>
>> >> Tapio's factual comments comparing car-free areas in different places
>> may
>> >> have been right on. However, comments he made such as the following are
>> >> feelings that perhaps were best kept to himself:
>> >>
>> >> "I have got the influence that Manhattanties would perhaps be more
>> >> tolerant, anti-rasist, "free-minded", perhaps not so fundamentally
>> >> religious, than people on most other places (e.g in Hershey).
>> >>
>> >> (Of course all North-America are friendly. "May I buy you a drink,
>> >> what do you like about America". The interest / knoledge about
>> >> Europe/rest of world is generally not very strong.)"
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> I, personally, would not go to someone else's country, or even an
>> >> unfamiliar part of my own country, and make public comments such as
>> >> those. Nor do I think would most people. I am sure that if any one of
>> us
>> >> went to various parts of Europe, we would have, along with the mostly
>> >> positive impressions we had, perhaps also some negative ones that we
>> >> might not necessarily want to point out on a website frequented mostly
>> by
>> >> people of that particular country. IMO, Mr. Rothberg was correct in his
>> >> reaction and in what he said.
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: JOHN TETZ
>> >> To: NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)
>> >> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:42 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers
>> >> Hello Tapio;
>> >>
>> >> I feel your comets were right on particularly about the lack of car
>> free
>> >> areas in US cities.
>> >>
>> >> Back in 1996 I went to the week long Car Free Cities Conference held in
>> >> Copenhagen. I gave a talk on my Up Hill assist for the simultaneously
>> >> held Bike Culture week.
>> >>
>> >> There were as I remember 35 or so cities from many European countries
>> >> were present. No US cities were there. High on the list of helping
>> solve
>> >> the car free areas was the bicycle.
>> >>
>> >> That was back in 1996. Since then more and more European cities have
>> >> adopted car free city centers. So naturally you would be very sensitive
>> >> to the lack of this here in the US.
>> >>
>> >> John Tetz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bent mailing list
>> >> Bent at list.marsride.org
>> >> http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bent mailing list
>> >> Bent at list.marsride.org
>> >> http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tapio Osala
>> > tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com
>> > Vaasa gsm +358400761185
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bent mailing list
>> > Bent at list.marsride.org
>> > http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bent mailing list
>> Bent at list.marsride.org
>> http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bent mailing list
> Bent at list.marsride.org
> http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent
>
>
--
Tapio Osala
tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com
Vaasa gsm +358400761185
--0016e6d99daae7126f047cfc1ece
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>Off topic:</div><div><br></div>Helsinki is only in the beginning of ex=
panding their car-free areas in city centre.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>One c=
entral main street "Aleksanterinkatu" is now car-free. (Some mino=
r streets in city centre has been car-free perhaps a decade but there is NO=
larger one car-free area).<div>
<br></div><div>BUT there is a network of separate bicycle lanes along the m=
ain streets in the Helsinki Centre.</div><div><br></div><div>From all sub-u=
rban areas in Helsinki (as all cities) there are separate bicycle lanes TO =
city centre.</div>
<div><div><br></div><div>Sweden and Denmark are much better in car-free are=
as in city centre areas. Stockholm, Copenhagen... and almost ALL minor citi=
es in Sweden have large car-free areas in the city centres.</div><div><br>
</div><div>In Finland there is a debate and demand from public to increase =
car-free areas but car-owners and conservative politics are against it.</di=
v><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">201=
0/1/12 Old Pokey <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:oldandpokey at gmail.=
com">oldandpokey at gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>This is off topic.</div><div><br></div=
>I went biking in Helsinki a couple of years ago. =C2=A0I must have missed =
the car free areas other than a small area by the pier. =C2=A0<div>
<br></div><div>What I did notice is that the drivers that I encountered see=
med more respectful of cyclists, but that may have been biased by my expect=
ations. =C2=A0Even though Helsinki is just a very tiny fraction of the size=
of NYC when I was there (less than 600,000 people), it seemed that there w=
ere many, many, many, many more bicycles on the street.<br>
<div><br></div><div>I enjoyed my visit even without encountering car free a=
reas.</div><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"#888888">OP</font><div><div><=
/div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 11, 2=
010 at 2:00 PM, Clay Mikolasy <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:clay@=
njsouth.com" target=3D"_blank">clay at njsouth.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Apology accepted! As far as car-free areas, =
I'll let others address it. I am<br>
fortunate to live in a relatively rural area, so I co-exist nicely with car=
s<br>
on most public streets, but that may be difficult in some places.<br>
<div>----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Tapio Antero Osala" <<a href=3D"mailto:tapio.antero.osa=
la at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)"<br>
</div><div><div></div><div><<a href=3D"mailto:bent at list.marsride.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bent at list.marsride.org</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:54 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers<br>
<br>
<br>
>I am not an cultural anthropologist but I am curious and willing to<br>
> make observations about people behavior.<br>
> It is a bad habit to make generalizations after a few observations and=
<br>
> can't hold them in my self...<br>
><br>
> You have right.<br>
><br>
> This forum is not the right one to comment your domestic characters. I=
<br>
> should only compare my feelings with my countrymen who have<br>
> visited/lived over there.<br>
><br>
> I apologize.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----<br>
><br>
> But =C2=A0what about this issue;<br>
><br>
> "helping solve the car free areas was the bicycle."<br>
><br>
> Unfortunately I have not yet managed to test your bicycling routes.<br=
>
> How are they? Totally car free? Are there coming more in the future?<b=
r>
><br>
> What about countyside? Do you have separate lanes along the high-ways<=
br>
> for bicycles?<br>
> In any state?<br>
> Are people commuting in NYC-area with bicycle?<br>
> Is it possible to take a bicycle in a metro?<br>
> Is it possible to use bicycle from New Jersey to Manhattan without tol=
l?<br>
><br>
> ----<br>
> In Finland people have generally accepted the idea of car free city<br=
>
> centres just a couple of decades ago.<br>
> The process has just started in major cities.<br>
> In Sweden/Denmark this progress is about 40-50 years old.<br>
><br>
> All business people were against it strongly at first but times are<br=
>
> changing and business wants to have their stores along<br>
> car-free-streets.<br>
><br>
> I think it is freedom not to be obliged to use a car every day. (I am<=
br>
> such a lucky guy).<br>
><br>
> You have a wonderful public transportation system. That is functioning=
<br>
> only in Helsinki in Finland.<br>
> In small cities like Vaasa people mostly use cars but more and more<br=
>
> use bicycles.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Tapio, from Finland<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2010/1/11 Clay Mikolasy <<a href=3D"mailto:clay at njsouth.com" target=
=3D"_blank">clay at njsouth.com</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Tapio's factual comments comparing car-free areas in different=
places may<br>
>> have been right on. However, comments he made such as the followin=
g are<br>
>> feelings that perhaps were best kept to himself:<br>
>><br>
>> "I have got the influence that Manhattanties would perhaps be=
more<br>
>> tolerant, anti-rasist, "free-minded", perhaps not so fun=
damentally<br>
>> religious, than people on most other places (e.g in Hershey).<br>
>><br>
>> (Of course all North-America are friendly. "May I buy you a d=
rink,<br>
>> what do you like about America". The interest / knoledge abou=
t<br>
>> Europe/rest of world is generally not very strong.)"<br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>> I, personally, would not go to someone else's country, or even=
an<br>
>> unfamiliar part of my own country, and make public comments such a=
s<br>
>> those. Nor do I think would most people. I am sure that if any one=
of us<br>
>> went to various parts of Europe, we would have, along with the mos=
tly<br>
>> positive impressions we had, perhaps also some negative ones that =
we<br>
>> might not necessarily want to point out on a website frequented mo=
stly by<br>
>> people of that particular country. IMO, Mr. Rothberg was correct i=
n his<br>
>> reaction and in what he said.<br>
>><br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>> From: JOHN TETZ<br>
>> To: NY/NJ/CT/PA Metro Area Recumbent Society (MARS)<br>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:42 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Bent] Car Free centers<br>
>> Hello Tapio;<br>
>><br>
>> I feel your comets were right on particularly about the lack of ca=
r free<br>
>> areas in US cities.<br>
>><br>
>> Back in 1996 I went to the week long Car Free Cities Conference he=
ld in<br>
>> Copenhagen. I gave a talk on my Up Hill assist for the simultaneou=
sly<br>
>> held Bike Culture week.<br>
>><br>
>> There were as I remember 35 or so cities from many European countr=
ies<br>
>> were present. No US cities were there. High on the list of helping=
solve<br>
>> the car free areas was the bicycle.<br>
>><br>
>> That was back in 1996. Since then more and more European cities ha=
ve<br>
>> adopted car free city centers. So naturally you would be very sens=
itive<br>
>> to the lack of this here in the US.<br>
>><br>
>> John Tetz<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bent mailing list<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:Bent at list.marsride.org" target=3D"_blank">Bent at l=
ist.marsride.org</a><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent"=
target=3D"_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</=
a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bent mailing list<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:Bent at list.marsride.org" target=3D"_blank">Bent at l=
ist.marsride.org</a><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent"=
target=3D"_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</=
a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Tapio Osala<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tapi=
o.antero.osala at gmail.com</a><br>
> Vaasa gsm +358400761185<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bent mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Bent at list.marsride.org" target=3D"_blank">Bent at list.=
marsride.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</a><b=
r>
><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bent mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bent at list.marsride.org" target=3D"_blank">Bent at list.marsr=
ide.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent" target=
=3D"_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bent mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bent at list.marsride.org">Bent at list.marsride.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent" target=
=3D"_blank">http://list.marsride.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bent</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Tapio Osala<br><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com">tapio.antero.osala at gmail.com</a=
><br>Vaasa gsm +358400761185<br>
</div></div></div>
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